as for the huge loss of humanity for killing unarmeds that would just get the statwhore bandits to do even more spawnkilling

What can I say?

it sux to be a hero and its gettin harder...

I help people and have trust in survivors. I give away cars and gear as presents. Take survivors up to the north 4 free. Whatelse can I do?

Actually i only have that high humanity cause i dont kill survivors ( even if they shoot on me[WICKEDSICK] ) and giving blood to my wounded mates.

Lately i got shot by a survivor which i helped out at balota. Gave him hatchet etc. in komarovo i got shot in the face by him. Took my gear never came back on the server. Great to be a hero!

Tell me what shall i do ?

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"Der der nichts erwartet, wird auch nicht enttäuscht werden"

Exactly... I guess thats the point anyway. Morals are not an infite property. Its more or less a binary value if you get me there... One murderer can´t be worse than one other... only his intentions.

If you´d say... limit humanity from 10k to -10k this stat-whoring would end for everyone at a certain point of time. But I dont know if someon could code something like that into DayZ after all... And reen and Marian would rage like there´s no tomorrow for they are the biggest stat-whores I know on the server. (Which is oh so ironic because they hate each other but are very equal in that perspective...)

(I bet I get yelled at for that one... ^^ )

Nothing.

Hero has always been the more frustrating play style, nothing has changed there since dayzmod was released and it never will. If you don't like getting shot by survivors and bandits don't play as a hero! It's simple. You cant expect other people to play by your own self defined rules just because you play as a hero.

I suggested a loss for heroes and a gain/no difference for bandits

As I mentioned later though I think its a waste of time and just removing the whole stupid number would save me a ton of hassle.

The second one is exactly what we don't want, because that's the way it is now. Bandits are rewarded for killing everything because they count negative humanity as "precious". For a hero on the other hand it is quite hard to gain humanity, which he counts as "precious" in a different way.

This is a game after all so there has to be some sort of statistic or measurement. Call it e-penis or score, doesn't matter. I personally like my hero-clothes even though the guy could really put his shirt up his trousers. On the other hand it is like a huge neon illuminated sign calling "shoot me".

I am sorry for every accidential bandit who might be pissed off because he got shot on sight. But as stated above this is a vicious circle. As much as I dislike this I can understand the frustration and why people do it. You can't blame just one side here, the failure is in the system. People get frustrated by bandits spawncamping so they start shoting back. Hence you can't tell who the bandit is and if he got bandit on purpose everyone is treated the same; because chances are pretty damn low that someone in desert camo tights will cooperate.

That's why imho it should be as hard to get the bad ass bandit skin as it is to get the hero one. You won't get an accidential hero skin here, so why is it so easy to become bandit even if you don't want to? How is the loss and gain measured anyway? Christoph pointed out that the whole system of morale in dayZ is questionable and as Seaweed told us again and again the acutal coding is difficult and unreliable.

I don't want to gain humanity by killing people. That doesn't make any sense after all. But there has to be a way to encourage hero play the same way as bandit play. I don't want to spoil anyone's experience or force rules on some groups. Spawncamping and shooting on sight will and has to be a part of the game. But it should not be rewarded in any way. That's why I am looking forward to how this plays out and what kind of changes Seaweed might come up with. Tweaking the humanity gain if you bury a hero or increasing the gain by blood transfusions might be the right way. Any way to cancel out the spawnkilling for both sides might be even better (no humanity loss for bandits; humanity loss for heroes, if the bandit is unarmed etc).

Yeah 4 sure seaweed i dont complain by gettin shot. But i mentioned that u made it even harder to get humanity. Thats all.

And i would prefer Skins 4 SuperVillains and SuperHeros. Maybe first u get another skin with +20k or -150k

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"Der der nichts erwartet, wird auch nicht enttäuscht werden"

You can kill bandits I don't care who kills who, the discussion was originally about rewarding you with "humanity" when you bury them after you kill them, making you more of a hero. I don't like that because I don't think killing them is "heroic" and I am not going to encourage it by giving you more humanity for it. What you did is no different to what me and my bandit friends would do to those guys if I let you shoot the bandit you gain humanity when you bury him. I don't think thats right and thats what my original problem was and how this discussion came back.

still like the everybody looks the same approach, whats your opinion on that? especially regarding feasibility?

If stats get removed i think the number of people willing to help might even become less, not sure about that though there are some quite fundamental heros on this server that dont even care about the stats right now.

As for giving things to freshspawns reen, since i got shot by a guy i gave a gun to recently i have a new policy. If you want to give something to someone without dying for it knock him out with a crowbar, give him the stuff and make a run for it XD

Here are my feelings coming from a bandit pov.
I don't really have any suggestions since Seaweed seems to be making the right moves but I thought it might be good to give a "bandit" side to this discussion.

I can no longer approach heroes if I want to. Once upon a time there only even used to be 1 or 2 heroes on the server at a time since it was so hard to achieve and keep. This meant that when I saw one I would likely know who it was and I could leave them alone or talk to them is so desired. If I walked up to one and didn't shoot at them then they had the intelligence to realise I didn't want to kill them so they would be friendly...the key ingredient to being a hero.
Any bandit with the desire to kill a hero is not going to go up to greet them first (most of the time).

Now, heroes on the server are basically the same as bandits. They are a threat that must be eliminated before they kill me because they will pretty much always try to shoot on sight.

In my mind heroes and bandits depict good and evil. I don't really see why the good should get rewarded for acting in the same fashion as the evil.

Re: unarmed players.
I would ideally like to see them disappear on death and offer no benefit other than the "unarmed player" stat.

Re: stat removal
Everyone will hate this.

edit:

I like this new policy.

Like I keep saying, any system is going to be inherantly flawed. My advice is this - stop paying attention to the stupid number on your debug and just play the game.

Gravity Won is biggest hero I think I have ever met on this game, I thought that about him since he started playing this server and long before he ever got his "hero skin". If he had a bandit skin on I would still see him as a hero and I'd be truely gutted if I ever killed him. I don't think any other player could boast that on ZS, the number doesn't matter its how you treat other players that does ultimately.

Thanks Tom its good to have some more people sharing the bandit point of view on this, I think Heroes only ever see things from their own perspective a lot of time when discussing things like this. I know Zilvervis too has found himself in situations with heroes where he had no gun, he approached them talking in direct chat instead of running and they still killed him. Interactions like this do not help Heroes in their future encounters with bandits.

Yeah but now we´re talking about achievements.

Lets get rid of Hero and Bandit skins and lets limit humanity to a certain range. ^^ Totally not vanilla but maybe exactly what vanilla aimed for...

the only reason why i became a hero in the first place is because it was hard ^^ if it was harder beeing a bandit i would shot the living hell out of everyone crossing my path ^^

i dont like choosing the easy way

They key thing to remember is player count. A lot of the suggestions coming from many people are all nice ideas and many of them are likely possible to code into the mod but you need to think about the satisfaction of the entire community.

It is important to remember that any suggestions that are going to impact the satisfaction of the player base (of which the majority will always be bandits/survivors) are not going to be good for the server (most of the time). Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the players on the server rarely view the forum regularly and a change like the one you have mentioned would probably put them off playing here again.

Making subtle changes and adding/changing smaller features to alter gameplay is a much "safer way" to fix problems though this can come at the cost of things such as realism.

More players = more fun + more community + more donations. Compromises will always have to be made in order to keep people happy and the server running.

Well i dont want to complain.
I try to play hero whatever u say or change in the server.
But i dont think its fair callin me a "bandit equal".
I never never shot a survivor besides christoph from my team ( which was a hero).
So dont call me that. l It hurts my feelings.
Yeah i killed unarmed marian with kuhrier 6 times in one evening. But that is correct in that case i think.
And remember u always have the choice to NOT shoot a survivor!!! Even if hes nasty.
U DONT HAVE TO BECOME A BANDIT IF U DONT WANT TO!
Thats a easy fact!
Dont cry : "Uhhh i didnt want to become a bandit i had to kill 3 humans." NO nobody forced u to pull that fuckin trigger!!!
Makes me angry!!!
And yes my team is very trigger happy when we see a bunch of bandits. But we spare lone bandits lifes too if we dont want trouble.

Damn it! i m getting mad!

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"Der der nichts erwartet, wird auch nicht enttäuscht werden"

"I know Zilvervis too has found himself in situations with heroes where he had no gun, he approached them talking in direct chat instead of running and they still killed him. Interactions like this do not help Heroes in their future encounters with bandits."

This is cool story, especially since Zilvervis killed me 3 times when I just became a hero. Didn't fire a single bullet at him.
Leaving me no gear and let me work my way up again. He is actually one of the guys that makes me not trust any camo/ghillie/bandit whatever.


Edit: Im totally with reen on this one.

Im not with reen on this one. There is no reason to become angry or anything ^^

also some survivors need more killing them some bandits XD i must know im the hero with the most survivor kills

I met some nice bandits and let them go/they let me go

i met some bad survivors and shot them

in the end its a game and most of us kill people ^^

btw reen its racist to treat people differently depending on their skincolour!

dont discriminate, kill who needs killing

Thanks Tom, it's good to see the other side's pov from time to time. I do understand your view and you made an important point there: It is the old fashioned good vs. evil in some twitched post-apocalyptic way. I wish gameplay would be more like what you and Seaweed talk about from the "old times" but it seems like the heroes vs. bandits dilemma has somewhat spun out of control recently. We are acually really the same, just from different angles.



I totally agree with that. Thanks again Tom.

Right but the point I'm trying to make is that you can NEVER expect a bandit or survivor not to shoot you just because you are hero. But you can do things that will make this less or more likely. The kill on sight attitude I see from Heroes is exactly the same as I see from bandits, only they don't shoot people in 1 of the 5 possible skins....

Zilvervis is a bandit of course he will shoot you, but I know for a fact he is even more likely to shoot a hero after his encounters with some on this server. We may be bandits but normally if we see a hero skin we try and have some fun with them instead of shooting. We don't do that any more because we know we are dead if we don't shoot first.

This thread has got miles off topic now anyway imo. As mentioned this discussion was about why I was not rewarding heroes with humanity for killing bandits. Tom summed this up perfectly already in far less words than it's taken me



I'm done with this thread for now but my advice to the heroes out there is this. Never expect other people to play the game the way you do, and never get frustrated when someone doesn't. You should expect the worst and understand the dangers of your play style.

You should NEVER however shoot bandits out of fear of what "might happen". Fear of what a person could do is exactly the reason bandits kill everyone, and you are the same as them if you do that as well. Oh and stop looking at your stupid humanity score for confirmation of being a good person, the only person who cares what your humanity is, is you.